Judge Lynn Toler
KH: So what got you started in law?
JLT: I couldn't do the math, and I was going to be a doctor, and I got to college and I couldn't do the math so I had to do something else. And my father said, "well why don't you do law? And there you go."
KH: What made you decide to do a show about marriages on the rocks and divorce after being in the court system for so long?
JLT: I just got a phone call out of the blue, actually, to do the show "Power of Attorney," which was a show that was on in 2001. I wasn't going to do it because I thought, "I'm a judge, I've got a nice job." But my husband said, "you know Lynn, you get one shot at life, this is interesting, why don't you go for it?" I did and the show didn't last very long, and someone called and said "there's another show, do you want to take it?" So it wasn't, I guess. . . as I'm saying it, it sounds like I'm an accidental overachiever. I just ended up getting these opportunities and taking them, it wasn't any grand plan or decision on my part.
KH: Now does it get you down sometimes, sitting behind the bench everyday and watching people fight and ruin relationships because of cheating, lying, etc?
JLT: Not as much as it did being on the bench when I was a municipal judge. I had 300-400 domestic violence cases a year and I had people who were stealing and fighting and cutting and carrying on and I was putting 19-year-old men in jail. So, comparatively, this is a whole lot easier to deal with. It makes me appreciative of the relationship I have, but I'm so used to misconduct that this is on a lighter scale so it doesn't bother me so much.
KH: What's the most popular reason that people come on your show; is it cheating or is it lying. . . ?
JLT: I believe it is cheating, cheating is huge. Cheating is the number one issue, and a lot of women come on the show to talk about cheating because they want to be heard. Then the guys come on because they want to be on TV because it's kind of cool, so they'll take shots at their character in order to have an opportunity to have their 15 minutes.
KH: Watching so many people come to you with marital problems, why do you think the divorce rate is so high in America?
JLT: I think there are couple of reasons. Number one, a legal reason which is a 'no fault' divorce, so you don't have to establish grounds and have particular reasons to do so. You can say irreconcilable differences as it is called today. Number two, I believe women are more capable of getting out of bad relationships these days because they are more present in the work force and therefor they are not economically bound to the guys that they're married to. I also think that we have more of an immediate gratification society than I think my generation and the generations behind us were raised. More of a 'you can get everything right now' with internet and TV; and the concept of sticking with it and getting through the bad years is like, 'oh it's been bad for six months, let me go because I'm not happy right now.' We've kind of lost the idea that you're not supposed to be happy all the time. And so I think all of those reasons contribute to the high divorce rate.
KH: You've been married for what, 17 years now?
JLT: Actually 20 years last week.
KH: Well, congratulations!
JLT: Thank you!
KH: So what do you think is the secret to a happy and lasting marriage because it seems like a lot of people today don't know how to work that out. They don't know how to go for the long haul in a marriage.
JLT: I think the secret is number one, really, don't expect to be happy all the time. Year 19 was a bumpy year, we didn't really celebrate 20, we just looked at each other like, "Phew! Glad we got here!" Because some times are just bad and I think you have to have the ability to say, "wait, we're not madly happy right now, but we are going to make a decision to stay" and then you have to have the conversation to work on it. You have to work at a marriage. It's a job, you have to do things, change things, how you're doing things if the marriage isn't working out well. You have to get help if the two of you are going around in the same circle all of the time. You're not going to be happy all of the time, and when you're not happy that you have to work to become happy and that requires a lot of conversation and a third pair of eyes on occasion because you guys are stuck in a thing and you can't see what you're doing wrong.
KH: Now do you have an idea in your head of writing a book on marriage?
JLT: You know, I wrote a book on emotional acuity, and it talks about it more. Like I said, we had trouble this 19th year. My mother came and she was that third set of eyes that said, "oh here's what you people are doing wrong!" she has this ability to look at the emotional. People do things because of how they feel, not because of what they know, and she can look and figure out how everybody feels and what they need to do in order to feel in a way to make it better. That's what I wrote my book about, called "My Mother's Rules." In that book, I have a chapter about the "he, me, and we" of it, understanding the emotional realities to a relationship. I am thinking of doing a second one with the respect to marriage alone, but I'm not sure if I've figured enough out yet.
KH: Yes, I don't think anyone really figures it all out until the very end, and then it's too late to write a book.
JLT: Yes, there you go! And people look to expert for things, and sometimes it's just a matter of there aren't any simple answers to any of it. I think today if we are all looking for simple answers, we are always going to be disappointed.
KH: How do you feel about the couples that come to your show before they get hitched? Do you think that they are really right and ready for marriage if they need someone to validate that decision for them?
JLT: Oh, 99% of the time I think that they made a mistake. We do have episodes on the show that deal with that called "Before the Vows." [It's about] people who are thinking about getting married or who are engaged, have gotten a wedding license and they have issues. A lot of people, they never have a conversation about what did they expect, how their day to day is going to be, who wants to do what. I mean, anywhere from who's making the money to who's cleaning the toilet, I don't like your mother, what are we going to do about that? People just think, "oh I love him." What I ask people to do in the before the vows session is to list the five things you DON'T like about the other person and are you willing to live with it long term? Because people usually don't think about it that way. Some of them say, "well, there's nothing I don't like." And I tell them, well you don't know them well enough because there is something wrong with everybody because nobody is perfect, and you have to live with that. So I think most of the people I see, I think most of the people that get married to tell you the truth, some of them work and some of them don't, but don't really think it through for what it is. They fall in love and they think "wow, this is cool, let me go do this." But there are a lot of practical considerations.
My husband and I went to a marriage counselor several times BEFORE we got married. So we knew we were on the same page and we would be able to work out whatever it was that was going to crop up and be wrong. I think that's one of the smarter things I've done. I've done a lot of stupid stuff, but that wasn't one of them.
KH: Are you afraid that the producers choose couples for the show more so for the ratings rather than the ones that could use and benefit from your advice and input?
JLT: Well, I'm not afraid for that. I know that's what happens, that they do it for the ratings. My thought is that you can do both, and I think that especially these last two years that "Divorce Court" has really made an effort to do both. We had a great couple a couple of weeks ago. They were very normal, there was no cheating, there was no lying, it was she's nagging and he doesn't get up and do anything. Which is a very common problem amongst marriages. We are kind of expanding to have interesting couples, but who aren't running up and down the streets whooping and hollering and all that. I think that it's a balance that you can get to, and I think we are working towards that balance.
